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new take on "safer" Sephiroth?

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From what I've heard, most fans believe "Safer" Sephiroth is a mistranslation of "Seraph" Sephiroth...
but I was browsing Amazon.com, and noticed a book that covers "Sepher Sephiroth", which sounds a lot closer to "safer" than "seraph" does... I'm trying to dig up more into on what the Sepher Sephiroth IS, but from what I can gather atm, it's another version of the Sephirot/h?
Here's a link to the book 777 and Other Qabalistic Writings of Aleister Crowley: Including Gematria and Sepher Sephiroth (via Amazon) that caught my attention with the mention of Sepher Sephiroth.
Based loosely on this Wiki article, "Sepher Sephiroth" might be (in the sense of our beloved game), "Creation Sephiroth" (I am, by no means, knowledgeable of Hebrew), which in a way makes sense - angels and creation and whatnot (I'm still trying to get my head around this).
Pre-posting Edit: Ok, based on "Hilkot Yetzirah" meaning "Rules of Creation" and "Sepher Yetzirah" meaning "Book of Creation", rule out the above "Creation Sephiroth" thing. (it would have been a cool idea, though)
Of course, that is drawing from a Wiki article; such things need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Useful other spelling:

Misc Thoughts:
How is "Safer Sephiroth" written in the Japanese version of FFVII?

Continuing researching into this...
Current Mood:
curious curious
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On July 2nd, 2006 06:12 am (UTC), yrena commented:
Many people think it is also meant to be "Savior" Sephiroth.
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On July 2nd, 2006 06:35 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
*sounds it out* hmm, haven't heard that yet, but it makes sense...
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On July 2nd, 2006 08:54 am (UTC), yrena replied:
I've also heard, on another FF7 related thing somewhere, a long time ago, about how the "One Winged Angel" was fallen from heaven. Also heard that there are two one winged angels, and in order to fly they have to hold each other up, being the support for the other. Or something. Just a random memory ^_^; which makes sense because Cloud's KH form has a wing on the opposite side of Sephiroth.
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On July 2nd, 2006 10:22 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
ah, yes... One-Winged Angel, Fallen Angel, and all that = Satan. *wracks brain* was that his original "angel" name? I can't remember...

The two one-winged angels... can you tell me more about that? That sounds really interesting especially to a S/C fangirl.
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On July 2nd, 2006 10:54 am (UTC), yrena replied:
That's all I remember, sorry. That and a picture of two one winged angels, one light and one dark winged, holding on to each other. It wasn't a fanart.

This was like, two or three years ago, maybe a bit more or maybe a bit less.
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On July 2nd, 2006 11:19 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
Hmm... something else to look into...
I really like that idea.
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On July 3rd, 2006 09:55 am (UTC), dr_hojo replied:
like a consiousness got split, much as sephiroth did into the three inadequate goons in advent, perhaps cloud's consiousness is somehow rooted in sephiroth's, or, blah, jenova because of the cells?
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On July 3rd, 2006 11:45 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
Two "aspects" of Jenova's (remaining) consiousness? One "good", one "bad". But which is which? From Jenova's POV, Sephiroth is a good son, aiding her in her purging the world of mindless, disrespectful fools.

I think that at some point in the timeline of FFVII, Sephiroth's and Jenova's consiousnesses(spl?) fuse, though IMO, Sephiroth's will is stronger. The man that was known as General Sephiroth only partially exists "now", if at all. Perhaps he lost his humanity that day, and gave into the Jenova cells, but came to see them as a new source of power? I'm going in circles x_x

and WHAT did you call the SMH? o_o *huggles them*
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On July 2nd, 2006 07:09 am (UTC), mimi_sardinia commented:
Well the Seraph connection is not an uncommon one with Sephiroth - a Seraph has six wings and Sephiroth a has five?
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On July 2nd, 2006 07:24 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
Not sure how many wings Sephiroth has...

Counting his right arm/wing, he's got 7?
I'm not a religion buff... what's "above" a Seraph?

aside: One of the Google Image links, although broken, had the desc "Seraph Savior Safer Sepher Sephiroth", so someone else out there has the Sepher idea too...
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On July 2nd, 2006 07:30 am (UTC), mimi_sardinia replied:
Huh, shows how long it's been since I last got a good look at him in that form.

I don't think there is an "above", IIRC, there's only two types of angels described in the bible, cherubim and seraphim. If there's anything above that I supose it's the Archangel Michael (who, despite popular belief, I think is just another name for Jesus) but that is all I can think of.
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On July 2nd, 2006 07:49 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
I was just thinking along the lines of having another wing would make him "higher" than the other forms.
More support for Savior Sephiroth, then?
What about being a God?

Though that arm/wing reminds me more of his One-Winged Angel form wing...
showing signs of being corrupted by power?

I'm just musing here...
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On July 2nd, 2006 07:53 am (UTC), mimi_sardinia replied:
Well in my own post I came around to the idea that Sephiroth is the Antichrist of FFVII. That way Jenova is the Devil because the Antichrist is usually the son of the Devil.
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On July 2nd, 2006 08:09 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
That reminds me of something our preist said at mass (waaaay back when my parents still dragged me to church). "You see all these horrible, gotesque images of the Devil; everyone expects him to be ugly. But I think the Devil would take on a beautiful form - embodying lust and temptation..." (I'm sort of paraphrasing here).
Do I really need to explain how Sephiroth relates to that? =P

personally, I don't want to pick just one theory to believe. I don't want to commit my mindset to one idea alone.
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On July 2nd, 2006 08:17 am (UTC), mimi_sardinia replied:
That sounds much like the sort of things I've heard.

Oh going for more than one theory is good - there's something interesting in seeing how multiple ideas mesh together into one monolith of interesting themes.
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On July 2nd, 2006 08:24 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
that's kind of my general approach to religion - I don't think one single religion can be right. There are key elements most/all of them share, and I think some odd blend of everything is as close to whatever real "truth" there is as we're going to get.
Again, I'm not religous, but it is interesting to look at, study even, from a more... psychological point of view.

there was something else about Seph that I wanted to mention for the past few comments, but I can't remember what it was now... >_
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On July 2nd, 2006 08:29 am (UTC), mimi_sardinia replied:
Hmm... I guess my POV is definately coloured by my upbringing, which I have never seen any reason to abandon.

Hopefully you'll remember it. ^_^
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On July 2nd, 2006 10:19 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
^^; I didn't offend you or anything, did I?

I'm far too logical and analytical to ever seriously consider a religion for myself. I'm just cold and detached from humanity like that. =P

Still can't remember what I was going to say... x_x I need sleep
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On July 2nd, 2006 03:07 pm (UTC), mimi_sardinia replied:
Naah, absolutely no offence. ^_^
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On July 2nd, 2006 08:52 am (UTC), yrena replied:
Do I really need to explain how Sephiroth relates to that?

Hmm, no not really, but I personally don't find Sephiroth all that attractive... ^_^;
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On July 2nd, 2006 10:20 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
Hmm, no not really, but I personally don't find Sephiroth all that attractive... ^_^;

well, I guess everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
More Sephy for me! *huggles him*
(gah, I've gone into fangirl mode!)
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On July 2nd, 2006 11:01 am (UTC), yrena replied:
well iiiff you wanna know the truth, I think he's a bit more than not attractive, actually, in game and in the official pics/ac screenshots.. I also don't like his personality/character much, either pre-nibelheim or post-nibelheim. Not that I'm bashing him, I think he's an essential character to the story and all that, but he's one of the few villians that I actually don't like XD;
I can't really put my finger on why though.
I guess this is getting off topic.. ^_^;

(I'm just being honest with you, no killings, ok? ^_^;)
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On July 2nd, 2006 11:22 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
he's one of the few villians that I actually don't like XD;
ironic. XD

Anyway... I won't kill you. It's interesting to hear a NON-fangirl's opinion on Sephy's hwtness.

As for putting fingers on things... =3
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On July 3rd, 2006 10:01 am (UTC), dr_hojo replied:
and link that with with hel at nibbelheim/niffelheim and we find that two culture's myths have been tied together... hmmm...
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On July 3rd, 2006 09:58 am (UTC), dr_hojo replied:
power does not corrupt men, but fools corrupt power.
muse muse =3
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On July 3rd, 2006 11:39 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
but absolute power corrupts absolutely.

btw, I think "Sepher Sephiroth" is literally "Book of Numbers". Which makes sense...
It's been a while... Seph uses SuperNova in is "Safer" (*snort*) form, right? And you see all those number, calculations...
*disjointed thoughts*
On July 4th, 2006 09:18 am (UTC), (Anonymous) replied:
disjointed, but impressive nonetheless
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On July 4th, 2006 09:51 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
(psst, you should log in Dr_Hojo)

Hm. Well, a lot of the mythology *is* from the West. Can't think of how else that might relate... Hojo's Lab is in Midgar(d), which is in the mid-eastern part of the World Map... Nibelhiem is more to the West, though.

IMO, I think it's just a coincidence; nothing was really ment by it. And like I said, they could haved used "ze" instead of "se" to spell his name.
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On July 2nd, 2006 12:33 pm (UTC), neo_rufus commented:
This might sound a bit odd, but I noticed some interesting things about Sephiroth's attack names.

One of his attacks is called "Stigma" which is interesting because that's part the name of the fatal disease he's using to control the Lifestream, "Geostigma."

Another attack he has is "Pale Horse," which can be thought of as Pegasus (white horse with wings) and Sephiroth has quite a few wings in his final form. That was kind of random, but I think it's a cool thought to keep in mind. :)

Oh and I'm working on an entry for this awesome community today. ;)
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On July 2nd, 2006 03:15 pm (UTC), bangbangshinra replied:
Hey thats really interesting I didn't realise he had an attack called Stigma.. I think its because the last time I played FF7 I beat Sephiroth before he had a chance to use any named attacks.. (not a good thing I don't like easy battles).. but I do remember Pale Horse - it caused me an awful lot of problems as a newbie I recall.... Its interesting what the horse thing could signify - Pegasus would seem obvious but I can't see how that would relate to Sephiroth at all - Pegasus was a son of Poseidon and Medusa - when Perseus slew Medusa Pegasus was born fully formed from her blood (I think)- Posiedon was the father of all horses (he supposedly made them - a white horse can be associated with sea foam and waves) - I suppose Medusa could be like Jenova in someways - they would look pretty similar with Medusa being a Gorgon - oh yeah and Medusa turned people to stone - which is a status attack - and "Pale Horse" was a load of status attacks wasn't it? Maybe I'm just making cheap links now.... ^ ^
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On July 2nd, 2006 05:39 pm (UTC), shimizu_hitomi replied:
Actually, I think "Pale Horse" is a reference to the fourth Horseman of the Apocalypse (i.e. Death):

"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Apocalypse

This would also fit more with the Judeo-Christian theme going on with Sephiroth, I think.
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On July 2nd, 2006 08:53 pm (UTC), bangbangshinra replied:
Yeah - that makes much more sense! I didn't think Pegasus could be right....
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On September 26th, 2006 05:23 am (UTC), vilajunkie replied:
Stigma=stigmata, the name of the condition that Jesus had when crucified. (Blood runs from the palms of the hands and the soles of the feet.) Or, I believe the stigma is a part of a flower's anatomy. So "Geostigma" could be "Earth's (Geo's) Stigmata"...
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On July 2nd, 2006 03:01 pm (UTC), bangbangshinra commented:
This is all very interesting.. as I was saying in reply to another post there has been a lot of info floating around the comm regarding this sort of stuff... at some point I think I should gather it all up and maybe post an essay regarding all the ideas... so it is easy to access in one post... it seems to be one of the main interests in how FF7 relates to myth... maybe bacause it is more obvious.. and probably because it is more familiar to us in the West seeing as though it is mostly rooted in Christan and Jewish mythology.. (and as there is a lot of Sephiroth fangirls such as yourself ^ ^)
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On July 3rd, 2006 02:14 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
Ah, that'd be *great* if we had all these links and info lumped into on entry... and make it a Memory or something.

I wonder WHY there's so much Western religeous influence in these games made in Japan... is it exotic to them?
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On July 3rd, 2006 09:00 am (UTC), bangbangshinra replied:
Yeah I think it would be - when everyone seems to have run out of steam on the subject I may well do that.

I suppose Western religions must be exotic to them - much in the same way that their religions seem exotic to us - I mean we use their religions for films etc - for example in Star Wars and The Matrix, I think with Japanese games it can't be much different.

If you think about it as well the whole stereotypical fantasy genre originally developed in the West - with LOTR and medieval influences etc - the Japanese liked all that - took it up and developed it further into all the wonderful games we have today.
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On July 3rd, 2006 10:06 am (UTC), dr_hojo commented:
anyone every think with all this misstranslating going on... about the west wind, zephyr/zephyrus?
greek i think. sounds simmilar. aspects... no clue.
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On July 3rd, 2006 11:50 am (UTC), drkangelyahriel replied:
I've never really heard much dispute over the translation of Sephiroth's name... it's printed as Sephiroth, said as such, and seen in SE's official guides and such as "Sephiroth"
I'd think that if they wanted Zephyrus, they would've used "ゼ(ze)" instead of "セ(se)"
ゼフィロス... ゼフィラス...? (not sure how "Zephyrus" is pronounced in English ^^; )

Tell me more about Zephyr, though. I'm not familiar with it/him/that...
On July 4th, 2006 09:21 am (UTC), (Anonymous) replied:
west wind. i don't know much more, but there's four of them, duh. zephyrus, borreus, notus and i think eureus
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On September 26th, 2006 05:20 am (UTC), vilajunkie replied:
Zephyrus is really close to Sephiroth when pronounced: Zeh-fir-uhs. Zephyrus was said to be the only "good" wind--in both the sense that sailors wanted the breezy west wind the most, and Zephyrus' character was mild-mannered, while his brothers were boisterous and violent. He is the son of Eos the Dawn and Asterius the god of starlight. He once fell in love with a boy named Hyacinthus, who was killed and his blood turned into the hyacinth flowers. Zephyrus also married a mortal woman, but I don't remember the name.
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